We’ve done some research and asked around and the general consensus is that certainly we don’t need one to do repairs. But we are planning to expand and accept broken items for donation which we will then fix and sell to support the project.
Is there any legal types who can give an opinion about this question. We hope that by accepting broken items from individuals that bring them in to us - they don’t become ‘waste’ in the legal sense and therefore this legislation doesn’t apply. Is there any precedent here? Has anyone else come across this question?
IANAL but I’ve dealt with waste issues in the past (community reuse) and, due to cowboys, licencing etc. there’s a lot of FUD out there.
Yes, you definitely need a licence if you’re handling waste in any way shape or form, but one of the key issues is when and how something “enters the waste stream” (i.e. becomes waste):
unfortunately the answer is a bit fuzzy, but the good thing is that things definitely don’t magically become waste just because they’re broken.
(Reductio ad absurdum: if this was the case then as soon as some device stopped working, you’d be committing an offence by taking it to a WEEE recycling bin .)
So, for example, if someone owns a broken item & brings it to you, then it’s definitely not waste, so no problem, but if they drop it in their dustbin, then change their mind, fish it out then bring it to you, they may commit an offence of handling waste without a licence and you may do too.
So, just to cover yourselves, you might want to put up a notice saying words to the effect of “We don’t accept anything that has been previously disposed of as waste”, or get your donors to sign a declaration to that effect.
As an aside, I am aware of cases where enthusiastic people have skip-dived devices & brought them to Restart Parties to be revived & a blind eye has been turned on the grounds that it’s a good thing to avoid the device being wasted regardless of the source.
(But you might want to wear gloves .)
Thanks for the info and makes sense, although it’s a shame that it seems to put barriers up against skip diving, we’ve had quite a few repairs brought in by local magpies!
Do other repair cafes / projects put up signs saying “waste items can’t be repaired or accepted for donations?” Presumably the same concern goes for charity shops - I can’t recall ever seeing a sign up in one of those…
I think some common sense is needed here.
Any Item that is brought in for repair is owned by the person that brings it in.
If it cannot be fixed, or it is fixed, that person takes it away.
That person is responsible for its status, not us.
We do not know its waste status!
I think this conversation is getting way too far into weeds/paranoia/how-many-angels-can-dance-on-the-head-of-a-pin territory.
No I’ve never seen one in ~~15 years of Restarting and, like I said, it’s up to the particular organisation and individual as to whether they repair things that they know/suspect have been skip-dived
Let’s just say that I, and many other people, fervently believe that skip diving should be as much an integral part of the nascent circular economy as repairing is.
If you think about it, there’s an implicit assumption that if something is given to to someone, the receiver doesn’t need to question the provenance of the gift: e.g. if someone gives me a gift, I don’t need to insist that they confirm that it’s theirs to give before I accept it.
The only time that doesn’t apply is if the receiver has any reason to believe it’s dodgy.
(e.g. there is a criminal offence of IIRC “Handling Stolen Goods” but it only applies if the receiver knows (or should have known) that the goods are stolen).
So the same would apply to charity shops.
i.e. unless they have reason to believe it’s dodgy, they don’t need to ask.
Yes that’s how a repair cafe/event works, but it sounds like Gareth’s aim is slightly different, involves the organisers keeping these donations, trying to fix them and then hoping to sell fixed items to fund (not profit!) the organisation’s ongoing work. Sounds like that could be okay while things go well but I imagine it needs care to ensure there is correct insurance in case of problems, and to protect against liability if the sold item breaks/electrocutes someone/bursts into flames, etc… Plus if an item isn’t fixable at what point does it in fact become waste and the organisers become responsible for managing waste? Might need commercial-level pat testing insurance, so you can put a PAT test ‘passed’ sticker on the item you’re selling.
But this must have been done before by people collecting used laptops to refurbish. Perhaps thzt’s different because not re-selling?
That’s a good point about insurance - we have cover for professional liability doing repairs for customers, I should check whether it covers repairs for sale.
I’m aware this is a ‘weedy’ topic and most repair projects won’t be concerned about it, I just wanted to harvest the hive mind and see if this question had ever come up for others.
I’d absolutely agree with the consensus that you don’t need a T11 exemption for your standard Repair Café activities.
While I can’t offer legal advice (and niether can the rest of the Restart team), it seems unlikely that you’d need one for your plans to accept donated broken items for repair—as long as those donating the items intend for them to be repaired and reused—given the reuse provision for the waste test:
When a material has not become waste
Reuse
A material will not be waste if all the following apply:
it is used for the same purpose for which it was designed – the use must not be subordinate or incidental to the original use
the previous holder intended for it to be reused
no repair, or no more than minor repair, is required to it when it is transferred from the previous
holder to the new holder, and the previous holder knows this
any necessary repair is going to be done
its use is lawful
it is not managed in a way that indicates that it is waste, for example it is not transported or stored in a way that could cause it to be damaged
If a material becomes waste before it is reused, you will have to apply the end of waste test to it.
This I do know about: an object doesn’t just magically become waste because it’s broken or unfixable†; you have to do something like chuck it in a bin or give it to a waste collector for it to become waste, so that’s not an issue.
All the organisers would have to do is make sure that any unfixable stuff eventually ends up in the right sort of recycling and/or waste bin.
I think this is another example of getting into complicated arguments about non-existent problems.
† Again: think reductio ad absurdum: if something became waste when it broke, you wouldn’t be allowed to handle it so you couldn’t throw it in the bin recycling receptacle without a licence
Yes I agree Dave, the importance transformation from precious thing to waste happens when the person discards it.
I feel fairly sure that our project isn’t going to have a waste audit squad descend on us or in fact have any real world issues at all! so this discussion might seem like it’s a bit academic and pointless.
But from my point of view coordinating a project, I want to make absolutely sure that we can continue running smoothly. So if someone raises an issue that could potentially cost us a lot of hassle/money I feel duty bound to investigate it - hence my post here.
Any other experiences around this a issue that folks are able to share would be welcome…
I think others have made lots of good points but one way Repair Cafes can handle this is: The item remains in the ownership of the guest at all times under their supervision. Whilst our Repairers at a Repair Cafe may offer “suggestions” which the guest may as for help from a community volunteer to enact, there is no business. The item stays with the guest and leaves with them for them to dispose of if necessary.
However, if volunteers start taking things home or they stay with the Repair Cafe to be worked on without the guest present. This may need some further thought.
No, no and thrice no!!!
Don’t even think about doing this: the repercussions for the organisation can be really unpleasant & tedious:
Hackney Fixers had a nasty case of this a while back and it took more than a year to sort out.
Repair Cafe Gosport allows volunteers to make private arrangements with guests for things that require more time. However, we are very clear that this is a private arrangement, for example, it is explicitly explained to the volunteers that liability insurance does not cover this.
However, we always want to learn from other groups and update our policy if applicable; can you share more details of the case you are talking about or send me a link to a public source. Please PM or email: chair@repaircafegosport.co.uk if you prefer.
This would not benefit “all repair projects” (or even any repair projects).
We have already established that there is no issue for repair projects, only for reuse projects, and then only where possible waste objects are being reused, so this is definitely a niche issue within a niche.
“Legal opinion” probably doesn’t mean what you think it does: check the link for details.
An opinion given by a lawyer would be just that: an opinion; it would be hedged all over with infinite caveats and would have no legal standing, so how would it help any organisation? †
The most it would do is give you a warm fuzzy feeling, which, nice as that might be for you, I can’t see any organisation wanting to spend its scarce spondulicks on.
† e.g. An insurance company could still void your insurance if they claim that it breaches their Ts&Cs, no matter how many times you wave a lawyer’s letter in front of them. Similarly, if you did commit an offence, you couldn’t sue the lawyer because their “opinion” would be caveated not to allow that and even if you could, you’d still be prosecuted regardless of the “opinion”.
Liability insurance is the least of your problems.
What do you do when an angry guest comes back and says that “your repairer” lost/broke their valuable item or has disappeared/died and they want compensation?
Telling them that it was a “private arrangement” isn’t going to wash unless you get them to sign a form absolving the organisation of all responsibility in advance.
You might say that those kinds of things are unlikely, but it has already happened to Hackney Fixers.
Yes, it’s an extremely unlikely, rare edge case, but Sod’s Law says those cases will happen in the fullness of time and, when they do, they’re really hard to deal with and a complete waste of the organisation’s time & effort.
The case I’m thinking of was really annoying in that the person who took the item home was not one of our repairers† and we didn’t even know that it had happened until we got an email from Victim Support (yes, really) sometime later. They had been contacted by this person, in spite of no crime being committed, and, since this person was obviously distressed, VS took it upon themselves to chase it up with Hackney Fixers. There followed about a year of to-ing and fro-ing and poor @James_Diamond had to pursue the peripatetic perpetrator until he finally retrieved the item.
The problem was compounded by the personalities of the 2 people involved, but, again, Murphy’s Law applies: this kind of thing will probably only happen when awkward personalities are involved.
Anyway, that’s why I say “never again” (at least without a comprehensive disclaimer), since you have no control as soon as the item leaves the repair event.
† They were known to us but they weren’t officially repairing with us: we found out later that they’d been wandering around the queue of people and had offered to “help” this person
P.S. There is a thread on here somewhere about this very topic, but I can’t find it.
I remember that Repair Café Lambeth had a similar issue with a repairer not coming back to fix an item: perhaps @Monique can remember the details?
Sounds like we’ve now got a couple of topics being discussed…
On the original topic of whether a T11 exemption is needed for reusing donated broken items…
@Gareth_Coleman, while I would be surprised if you needed one for your plans here, perhaps you could contact a local organisation that already does this work to see what kind of determination they made and whether they needed to establish any particular processes to ensure compliance with waste regulations. We have a directory of such organisations and groups here that you could use: https://therestartproject.org/where-to-donate-your-computer/
On the seperate topic of repairers taking home items to fix…
This is something we tend to discourage for the reasons Dave outlined. A number of years ago, we developed some basic guidelines around this, which might be informative: Repairs outside Restart Parties
But if we want to get into it, perhaps this is worth seperating this into a new topic to keep this one focused on the original? Let me know and I can do that
Regarding the T11 waste exemption: Trading standards received a complaint about our (unrelated to repair) business, alleging improper activity. Trading standards were quite conciliatory and while determining that we were, in fact, acting properly, they also advised us on a few other points and behaved in a generally helpful manner.
So even if you fell afoul of the regulations, I suspect that the Environment Agency would take your non-profit nature and good faith attitude towards the environment into consideration and help you meet their requirements, rather than throwing the book at you and trying to shut you down.
Thanks everyone for your responses and heartening to hear you had a positive encounter with trading standards. I suppose even the most hard-nosed beauracrats have a human side!
.)
I’ve never seen one in ~~15 years of Restarting and, like I said, it’s up to the particular organisation and individual as to whether they repair things that they know/suspect have been skip-dived 
